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America's Next Great Restaurant Interviewby Pattye Grippo    

This is a transcript of an interview with Bobby Flay and Steve Ells on February 9, 2011 about the show America's Next Great Restaurant.

Bobby Flay

Question:
What makes a really great restaurant?

Bobby Flay:
Basically there are certain ingredients to make the perfect restaurant - obviously terrific food which is more important than ever. Great service of course - because service can actually deter people even more than the food sometimes. And then of course an environment that people are going to enjoy. And there's different environments for every price point.

And then fourth but certainly not last is value. People want good food. They want good service. They want a good environment. And they want it to cost the right amount of money in their own minds.

Steve Ells:
Well we're looking for America's next great restaurant in a fast, casual format. And when we think about fast casual restaurants we think about a restaurant that's accessible to people like fast food. But a price point that's not much more than fast food and service that's very quick. But we're looking for a concept that elevates the typical fast food experience. And if I look at my experience with Chipotle we've elevated our offering in a couple of ways.

First of all we seek to use - we seek out the very best quality, sustainably raised ingredients, ingredients that are normally found in high end restaurants or high end groceries and making these kinds of ingredients available for everybody in a very convenient format. And secondly we want to higher crew or a (unintelligible) staff that is empowered, one that will help develop a culture of high performance so that we can again elevate our restaurant experience from the typical fast food experience.

And so I think we were looking in our contestants for qualities that would enable them to duplicate this kind of experience, to create an environment and food that's relevant to people, something that people will enjoy eating, but that is elevated above the typical fast food offering.

Question:
This contest will allow contestants to compete in both business and cooking challenges. Can you just give me an idea of some of the specific challenges that the contestants will face over the weeks?

Bobby Flay:
The challenges are specific to things that you'd have to go through to open a restaurant. I think one of the key elements here that should not be overlooked is that we're not just a panel of judges deciding people's fate week to week, but we're investors. And so we're putting our money up to open this next great restaurant.

e created challenges to put people through actual skills that they're going to have to utilize when opening a restaurant. So it could be anything from of course food and menu development to skill challenges that have to do with slogans and logos creating a uniform, creating a design of course for the restaurant. So they're all basically geared to real life issues that come up when opening a restaurant.

Question:
How did you work it out amongst yourselves when there was disagreement among you? Because obviously there's objective criteria of what is good food and what is a good presentation. But then there's also subjective criteria. So when there is some disagreement how do you all negotiate that amongst yourselves?

Steve Ells:
We had debates early on about the different kinds of cuisines and what we thought would be popular and accepted from the public. But I think what these challenges did along the way was help understand the character of the contestants. So not only are we looking at how well they competed with each other accomplishing specific tasks, but you really got an understanding of their passion for the restaurant business, their ability to use judgment and think on their feet.

You know, these concepts that they presented to us in the very first episode evolved. In fact the better contestants actually evolved their concept. And we watched them learn about the restaurant business from us. I mean, the really good ones asked us a lot of questions. They were curious. They were adaptable. And so not only did we look at how well they performed in the particular tasks but we looked at their ability to demonstrate passion for the business and to use good judgment in how they were presenting themselves during the challenges.

Question:
Among the four judges who would you say is the hardest on the contestants and why?

Steve Ells:
I think that we all showed a level of compassion. And we all got very attached to various contestants. And I think through the episodes we all had the opportunity to be very critical. I don't think one person stood out as the bad guy if you will. I think we all had instances where we were quite critical of a particular dish, a particular business decision, things like this.

Bobby Flay:
We all come from different places. We've all garnered success over sort of a slow period of time. And so I think that depending on what a contestant or somebody who was trying to pitch us a restaurant was trying to achieve sort of struck each one of us differently. And so I think that we basically took turns being sort of the tough guy at the table.

Question:
Since you all are potential investors in this restaurant did you feel that at the end of the contest you could've said there is no winner? Or would the sort of format of the TV series require you to have picked a winner anyway?

Bobby Flay:
I have to say that at the beginning we were a little bit concerned becaus first of all people will try anything to garner attention. And unfortunately for this show that doesn't cut it because we need quality. And we need something that's going to work. And we need something that when we put our money together we need a concept that's actually going to be viable.

And so what I think had happened is that early on we were pretty nervous that we weren't going to find something that was really going to be worthwhile. But the stronger pitches and the stronger people just get stronger as time went on. And they start developing their concept more based on the skills that we gave them.

And they also started getting more comfortable talking in front of us. And so that's how in my opinion the sort of the cream rose to the top. And then ultimately we had a handful of very very viable possibilities. And so we felt a lot better after a few weeks that's for sure.

Steve Ells:
I don't know how to answer your question specifically what if there were no concepts that we really believed in what would we do. We didn't have to face that. And Bobby is right. It was tough. We were quite concerned at the beginning. But as the stronger contestants evolved we came to a place where we had to make very tough calls because each of the finalists had certain qualities and certain aspects of their restaurants that were quite appealing. So it was not an easy decision to eliminate towards the end because of the various strengths that we saw in these people and in these concepts.

Question:
How and why did you decide to back this show?

Bobby Flay:
YI have to tell you that I get pitched a lot of ideas for television. And while there are a lot of good ones this one really stuck out for me in terms of me wanting to do it. And basically it's a really simple reason. I have spent my entire adult life in the restaurant business. I dropped out of high school and I went to work in a restaurant and I've been there ever since. I've been cooking for 28 years. And I've been lucky enough to have some success through the years.

And so this to me is a great way to do a couple of things. First of all it's a great way to mentor people who are looking to get into the restaurant business. You know, the restaurant business is one of those things that is intriguing to almost everyone. And I think almost every single person has said at least one time in their life I have a great idea for a restaurant. Not that they necessarily were thinking about doing it. But they had an idea.

And this was a perfect opportunity for anyone no matter who you are to come and pitch your ideas to four people that have had success in the restaurant business. And I like taking that role. I mean, I like I don't want to say it's sort of giving back. But in a way it is. And I like being a mentor to people who are just starting out because I've made a lot of mistakes through the years and why not be able to pass down the mistakes that I've made in terms of like not letting people make them again to people who are really passionate about what they want to do which is to open a restaurant of their - sort of their passion.

I was hooked immediately as soon as I heard what the idea of the show was going to be. And then also to be able to invest my own money and be partners with people like Steve and Curtis Stone and Lorena. You know, sometimes partnerships come out of nowhere and they work really well. And I would have to say that we've been terrific partners in getting this thing going.

Steve Ells:
It's interesting, in the first episode as the contestants were pitching their ideas it took me back. It took me back, over 18 years ago as I was describing the idea for Chipotle. And so I was in their shoes over 18 years ago. And I know how it felt. Andhad this idea. And most people I talked to about this idea gave me all the reasons why it was the wrong thing to do. But I was very very persistent. And I learned a lot over the years after opening the first restaurant. And now we have over 1,000 restaurants.

And so having been involved in taking something from just an idea and maybe even an idea that's not thought to be such a great one and turning it into a success has been exciting. And so to be able to share that experience with these contestants was really a pleasure. And so what I really got it out of it was my ability to convey what I think has contributed to Chipotle's success. And hopefully that helps them think about them forming and formalizing and finalizing and putting together all the details of their own concepts to make it a success.

And then to be able to work with Bobby and Lorena and Curtis on this and just be this really dynamic team that's really rooting for these concepts was a pleasure. It was really a lot of fun and a lot of hard work of course but quite rewarding. We saw some really fascinating people develop their concepts and develop and really they developed themselves I think and really showed us that they have the ability to think critically and admit their weaknesses and show their strengths. And it was a fun process. And I think the viewers are really going to get a sense of that and really going to be attached to a lot of these ideas and a lot of the contestants. They're very interesting people.

Question:
Would you say that the mentoring aspect of the show will set you apart from the other restaurant shows out there?

Steve Ells:
I think that's part of the brilliance of the show. I think that because we are investors we have this vested interest in making sure that the person who wins really is going to be successful as opposed to a reality show where there's a prize and then that's it.

You know, this is an ongoing prize. And really the winner wins more than just these three restaurants. They win the ability to continue to grow this business and turn it into something that could be quite large and quite valuable. The magnitude of what's at stake here I think makes this a really different show.

Question:
You're both extremely successful in the restaurant business. What advice did you have for the contestants throughout the competition?

Steve Ells:
Hard question to answer specifically because throughout the episodes a lot of the show is the interaction between contestants and the investors. And we were giving lots of advice and lots of mentoring along the way. But I think some of the most important advice is to really convey a sense of what it is that these folks are getting into, what the restaurant business is really about. That not only does it take a great idea, but it takes lots of other skills - the ability to build a really strong team that can execute their vision. It takes a lot of hours, a lot of hard work. It takes the ability to be able to communicate with customers and vendors and solve problems. I mean, a lot of the different competitions that the contestants went through really gave us the ability to see if these contestants have good problem solving skills.

Because every day in a restaurant you're thrown all kinds of challenges that you would never be able to anticipate. So the ability to watch contestants be able to figure things out under pressure was really great. And so we shared a lot of our own experiences with them and helped them along the way. So I think that was probably the best sort of feedback or advice that we could give them was helping them to prepare for the reality of what it's going to be like to own and operate a chain of restaurants.

Bobby Flay:
It was thousands of questions back and forth but I think that basically what I wanted to know from these people first and foremost is why they wanted to do this. Did they want to do this because they wanted to be on television which obviously was not going to work for us. Do they want to do this because this is really a lifelong dream of theirs. And if so what has caused that? Is it something in their family in terms of coming up with a great meatball recipe for instance and wanting to sort of spread that across the country. So for me the real question is why were you doing this and what is driving you to basically commit your entire career and the rest of your life to making this work.

Question:
What is the balance between the TV show and the business model? Obviously you guys have said that you're investors so you want to have the best restaurant people possible. In the early episodes did you sort of have to put in some sort of made for TV characters to be sort of cognizant of what other reality type shows do?

Bobby Flay:
You know, actually a lot of the crazy sort of concepts did not even make it to the final cut of the beginning of the show. We sent busses around the country to actually take auditions from people all over the place. You didn't have to be a foodservice professional to pitch a concept. You could be a schoolteacher. It didn't matter. It could be anybody. And we were told there were some pretty outlandish ideas. But for the most part we knew that ultimately we needed a good restaurant idea that would actually work and one that people would understand because otherwise we'd just be throwing our money out the window.

And so I think that as investors I think the four of us basically sort of operated on our own sort of volition and then let the TV take place around us. So that of course it's going to be a television show. But basically that's not what we were there for. We were there to find a really great restaurant idea.

Question:
Bobby, what do you continue to enjoy about television and how do you balance all of your restaurants with all of your TV shows and still sort of have time to take a breath and have some semblance of a personal life?

Bobby Flay:
Who has a semblance of a personal life? Let me tell you something, sleep is overrated I can tell you that much. I consider myself a very lucky guy. My entire life is about food. It's about one word. And so in many ways my career is very focused in terms of what my interests are and what I actually participate in. So of course my restaurants are the most important thing to me. And I'm in my restaurants most of my time. And then I shoot television when I can. But basically it all sort of works in unison.

You know, the stuff that I do on the Food Network that I've been doing for like the last 16 years. first of all I love doing it. It gets people to know who I am and also more importantly to know what my restaurants are. So that when they come to New York or they come to Vegas or wherever I have a restaurant they actually think of possibly going to one of my restaurants.

And so writing cookbooks, doing television, the restaurants, it all revolves around one word which is food. And so I don't think of it as business versus personal. To me it's all one life. And I sort of intertwine my personal life with my business life. And it seems to work really well. Now don't get me wrong. I work a lot of hours but I'm not complaining about it.

Question:
How did each of you initially get involved with this show?

Steve Ells:
I forget who even approached me through some of my marketing folks. And I started to sit down and talk with the folks at Magical Elves. And I was really intrigued by the idea. And I've never done anything like this before. And I really said listen I don't know if I'm qualified to be on a reality television show. I don't know anything about it. And they assured me that it's just my experiences at Chipotle were the qualification. I didn't really think of it as a TV show necessarily but as an exercise to go through some different concepts presented by different people and try to figure out which one has the potential to be a great restaurant. And through it I learned a lot and had a ton of fun. So I guess that's how it happened.

Bobby Flay:
I had a conversation with the owners of Magical Elves, Jane Lipsitz and Dan. And that industry is a very small industry. I've been in the food TV business for a long time, and obviously, their success with Top Chef is an enviable one. And so when they asked to come and talk to me at my office and when they rolled out the idea, it was very intriguing to me. I mean, I told them, basically, in the meeting that I was completely interested.

Question:
Did some of the people pitching you their ideas for restaurants get to you emotionally?

Bobby Flay:
Absolutely, I mean, you know what? The restaurant business is about people, and it's about people who drive the restaurants. I mean there's no Chipotle without Steve Ells. And he just didn't have a good idea. He had a good idea that he was able to just throw his entire body into and dedicate. I mean, Chipotle didn't happen overnight, and I don't think that any good restaurant has happened overnight. They take a long time to actually play out what they're going to be and it just takes a long time to play out exactly what it's ultimately going to be.

You know, it starts out on a piece of paper in somebody's head, and then it just sort of gets - it gets fleshed out over time. And so we got to know these people, at least the ones that were around long enough for us to get to know, you know, very intimately, and we got to know a lot about why they are and why they were doing this. And that's an important thing, because anybody can come up with a really good pitch, but the question is do they have the repertoire of personality and also drive to see thing through, because ultimately that's what they have to do. Getting the restaurant open might be easiest part of this. Making it work and growing the business is going to be the really tough part.

Question:
Why do you think people want to tune in to watch America's Next Great Restaurant?

Bobby Flay:
Because Steve Ells is on it.

Steve Ells:
No, because Bobby Flay's on it.

Bobby Flay:
I think that everybody has had the idea of I have a good idea for a restaurant, and so I think that lots of people in this country are going to see themselves as a possible contestant on this show. And the restaurant business is intriguing to people - even more so people that aren't in it - because there's sort of a mystery to it. You know, how does it work? You know, is it glamorous? Is it difficult? Is it fun? Is there a lot of money to be made in it?

I mean, there's all these questions that people don't really know the answer to, and I think that you're going to see this sort of play out sort of week after week on America's Next Great Restaurant. And I think that the other thing you're going to see is that the people who are pitching these concepts are learning that as well.

Steve Ells:
I think I would add to that too, though that's spot on. I would also say that they're such a fascinating group of contestants that you really get attached to them. Once you start watching the show, you're going to really want to follow them along. You're going to root for your favorite one, and you're going to watch them evolve their idea, and you're going to watch them go through all kinds of emotions. And it's really - it's a really very personal experience, I think.

Additionally, I think the show appeals to people who might want to start any kind of a business. I mean, there is a lot of emphasis placed on entrepreneurship and the ability to not only have a good idea but to take that idea and really evolve it and prove that you know how to put all the pieces together. So there're so many aspects to the show beyond just food and restaurants.

Question:
What are some of the challenges that these contestants will be facing?

Steve Ells:
There are cooking competitions. There are service competitions. There's design and creative both in uniforms and designing their interior and their logos, but through all these competitions I think the thing that is really important is that we, as investors, are trying to see who has the right personality, who has the right work ethic, who has the - you know, the ability to really make this thing work.

So it's about the specific competitions, but yet, also, it gives us an insight into the characters of the individuals. And I think that's also what makes it fascinating for the viewers. They get to really look inside the character of all the different contestants and get to know them intimately.

Question:
Years ago men cooking wasunheard of, but now if a man cooks he's cool. How do you think that evolved? And who before you made it look cool? Like who inspired you?

Bobby Flay:
Thank you for the compliment. Interestingly enough when I go to a football game or something a lot of the guys who you won't think of as cooks or guys that like to cook or guys who would admit they like to cook say to me all the time "Thank you for letting me be public about the idea that I like to cook And like that all of a sudden it was kind of cool amongst their friends that was their secret interest. And look, I think that that's changed a lot over the last ten years.

And really, cooking in America has finally caught up to the rest of the world. I mean, we were way behind for a long time, and now, I think that we've obviously moved to the forefront of the world in terms of what you know, what kind of food you can get here how good the cooks are and the chefs are in the restaurants, and on and on. And so I think that that sort of finally, we've caught up to the rest of the world. So, I mean I think that guys cooking has been something that's always been there. I just think that now it's obviously getting a lot more attention because of places like the Food Network and shows like that, like Top Chef and things like that.When I started cooking, it was only a blue collar profession.

I was 17 years old. This is, like, 28 years ago or something in. And I got lucky in terms of being in the right place at the right time. I was just sort of getting a paycheck every week, and then all of a sudden, food became a fashionable thing to be involved in, and I just happened to be in the right place at the right time.

Question:Steve Ells:
I don't know who else Magical Elves talked to about being an investor. I'm just aware of the four of us.

Bobby Flay:
I know for a fact, just being in the restaurant business, I talked to dozens of people that were talking about a possibility of being on the panel of investors. And so, I know that they spoke to a lot of different about it that were interested.

Question:
Steve, Chipotle is known for using ingredients from natural, sustainable sources. How important, if at all, is that going to be in the winning concept?

Steve Ells:
The contestants were certainly aware that that's very important to me and to us at Chipotle - the quality of the ingredients. And the reason it is is because food that comes from these sustainably raised sources taste better, and if you're serving better tasting food, you're going to have customers come more often.

And so, the challenge at Chipotle is to create an economic model that allows you to invest a disproportionate amount of money into your food relative to other concepts. Another way to say it is we spend more on our raw ingredients than our competition. So it gave me an opportunity to talk about Chipotle's economic model and how they can think about their own restaurants so that they can afford top-quality ingredients.

You know, I think it's a very important trend in the United States to eat better-quality ingredients, and many of our contestants were aware of that. Many of them came with the notion that eating something is something that's not only important to them and their families and their friends but something that they want to share with others.

So, while it wasn't mandatory, for sure, I think in the new idea of fast casua food the quality of the raw ingredients is an important aspect of that. And all of our contestants who sort of progressed nicely through the series were definitely aware of that and considered how that could be part of their concept.

Question:
Bobby, in the promo, you take a taste of something and have this face of disgust. How difficult is it having such a culinary background and judging a competition that's not just based on the food but on the concept and the business side of it as well?

Bobby Flay:
I'm a restaurant owner, and so I understand. I start with food first, because I'm a chef by trade, and basically that's how I spend my time in the restaurant. And so of course, food is very important to me. Now that doesn't mean that I can't see through a - you know, a dish that somebody is serving us that may not be perfectly seasoned or have the perfect technique. I mean, these we - these people weren't necessarily chefs. But, every once in a while, there was something that was just a little bit more difficult to eat than others, and that's what you're seeing on the promo.

Steve Ells:
I was watching over, and Bobby was about to take that bite, and I almost reached over to grab his hand to stop that spoon from going into his mouth. I just couldn't get there in time, and we all say it coming, and I'm like, "No, don't eat it."

Bobby Flay:
Yes, it was rough.

Steve Ells:
It was funny.

Question:
How has the economy changed the lives of the contestants?

Steve Ells:But it's interesting that I think there was an understanding that in tough economic times you have to have a restaurant concept - you know, a fast casual restraint concept that's affordable and accessible to everybody. This is not an elitist restaurant. This is not a $100 a plate restaurant. This is something that needs to be accessible to everybody, and so that was definitely a factor in the show.

Question:
Do all the contestants have outgoing, media-savvy personalities? Is that a must?

Bobby Flay:
Definitely not.

Steve Ells:
Well, I know that I, as a judge, did not.

Bobby Flay:
We were just looking for people with ideas. And you know, some people were better in front of a camera than others. I mean, this is not Food Network Star. They weren't looking for the next cooking show. So they didn't have to talk to camera, so to speak, you know?

They were talking to us, and the cameras caught them doing them. But, I mean, basically, I don't really think they thought of the cameras very much. I think it was an opportunity for them to get in front of four people who were willing to invest in their restaurant. And there's lots of ways to open restaurants, but that's sort of the most basic sort of idea of how restaurants get opened.

You have an idea, you convince people that you know or don't know to invest money in your restaurant, and then you open the restaurant, and you become partners, and basically, that's what we were doing. And so, I don't think the media-savvy part of it had anything to do with it. They were just people pitching their concepts to try to create a dream that they've all had which is to open a restaurant.

Steve Ells:
It was interesting to see the variety of people, though. Some of them were very shy. Initially in front of the camera, you could tell that they felt uneasy. And some of them were really hamming it up in front of the camera. But, as the episodes went on, I think people just sort of forgot the camera was there, and then you really got to take a look inside this person, and you really got to see their personalities emerge. There was no faking it towards the end. You really got to saw the real person.

Question:
obby, wWill viewers learn any recipes or cooking tips on the show?

Bobby Flay:
Yes, I think they will, actually.The show is not driven by that, but there's definitely cooking skill tests, and there's definitely things that you'll learn from watching some of the contestants who do a good job with their food, for sure, absolutely.

Question:
What's more important, the location of the restaurant or the food? Will people go to a bad area to eat good food, or do you have to have both the good area and good food?

Bobby Flay:
I think that location is important. I mean, you hear the sort of all that, it's location, location, location. Location is important and good location never hurts. Bad location can be overcome, but you have to get a reputation for having a terrific restaurant, and that involves food service and also the environment. So, it just makes it a little bit tougher, but there's plenty of examples of good restaurants in bad locations.

Question:
Steve, you talked about trending foods now, and it's all over the news. People are getting children to eat more healthy foods and sometimes the healthiest foods don't taste the best. But what is trending in restaurants right now? What do people want that they maybe didn't want ten years ago?

Steve Ells:
I really think that the best foods, the sustainably raised foods, are the foods that taste the best. And so, if you're buying things at their peak of season and if they're locally grown and if they're really, really cared for in the distribution and then the cooking and the presentation, they are going to taste better.

And so, I think this trend of making these kinds of food more accessible, so it's a buyable option to traditional fast food, is the wave of the future, and that's what we truly believe at Chipotle. And so I think there's room for many, many fast casual restaurants serving a variety of different kinds of cuisines, but I think that the best ones will be sourcing food carefully - you know, sustainably raised food - and preparing them according to classic cooking techniques like we do at Chipotle and then serving them in an interactive format.

You know, you mentioned health, and with health comes all these different kinds of diets out there, and so I think customers want flexibility when they go into a restaurant - to be able to pick and choose not only for taste but also for diet. And so I think this is a very, very important part of a fast casual format.

Question:
There have been several shows in the last few years with a similar concept to this. Obviously, this is a little bit unique in the mentoring and things like that that you guys are doing. The restaurants don't last long after the show ends. What makes you think that this will be different?

Bobby Flay:
I can tell you this, we're certainly not going into this thinking we're going to close restaurants. I mean, that's certainly not the goal. Anything's possibly, because it's the restaurant business, and it's probably one of the hardest businesses to go into. But our goal, obviously, is to grow the business, not to close the restaurants - to go from three to 30 to 300, who knows.

And one of the things I think that you get as the winner of this show is, besides the fact that you're getting these three restaurants and they're being invested in by the four of us, you're also going to be able to get our support and we're going to be the person answering the questions so that they can actually achieve success, because we have our money in there, so we're rooting very hard for these restaurants to succeed. And so I think that's sort of the safety net in terms of whether or not these restaurants are going to succeed enough or not, because once the show is over, there's nothing that says we can't help them, and we certainly will if we need to.

Question:
Can you talk about how much you've invested or what percentage stake and ownership you'll have in the winner's restaurant?

Bobby Flay:
We're not disclosing that information. All we can say is that we have some serious skin in the game. We're all equal partners, and it's substantial.

Question:
Steve, going back to your roots in the start of Chipotle with the guidance of people from McDonald's, how does that translate to what you're doing now with this reality show?

Steve Ells:
Well McDonald's was an investor in Chipotle for a seven-year period, and the main contribution their funds. You know, Chipotle was an established brand when McDonald's made a minority investment, and they really have nothing to do with Chipotle now. I mean, they have no financial interest or otherwise.

You know, I wouldn't say that's necessarily applicable. But certainly, I mean in looking at what has the potential to be a great restaurant I'm looking for the kinds of things that I think has made Chipotle successful and other successful restaurants. So, not only is it great food and a great concept, but it's the ability for the entrepreneur, for the business owner, to understand management skills and to be able to hire the right kind of team, a team that he can empower, and to be able to think on his feet and be able to deal with all the kinds of adversity that's going to be thrown his way.

So throughout the episodes these tests give us an insight into their ability to think on their feet and to prove to us that they're going to be able to handle some of the real world problems that they face once they start running their restaurants.

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